Route Grade Votings
Total votes cast 33
An easy corner leads to a hard, exposed finish.
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Lower the belay, the top move is pointless. Would be a classic 6a otherwise...
Excellent top move but much harder than the rest.
Top section is good, probably only 5+ without it.
What is the point of a stupidly hard top move? It's about 2 grades easier if the lower-off draws are already in place.
I agree about lowering the belay. The top move is completely out of step with the rest of the climb. Anyone that can lead 6b will find the lower 95% too easy and the rest of us get a nasty shock at the top.
"Lower the belay". Great idea! Why not do the same on dozens of other routes with a hard finish or one hard move surrounded by easier climbing and lower them to your standards? Its not a case of "What is the point of a stupidly hard top move" to quote John Alcock. This is the line and route the first ascentionist saw and climbed. The rock dictates the level of difficulty. Sport routes generally go as high as the rock quality will allow without topping out.
Actually what I meant to say was 'add extra lower-offs' to give an early ending to the climb as the route to the last bolt is a great lower grade climb.
'add extra lower-offs'!! Fantastic idea! I might be able to redpoint dozens of routes I couldn't do because the top moves to the belay were eluding me. Lets start with Raindogs, just never managed that last move to the chain. In fact, I can do the first move of Hubble. I'll just add a below at that point and claim it. Thanks for the idea John. GET REAL!!!!!
In fact, why stop with sport routes John? Just lower off those necky trad routes at the last good piece of gear and claim it.
Claim it? Keeping a score sheet of "Claims" is of no interest to me. I don't even bother to tick the guide book! (A bit too much like train spotting for me). I'll finish a climb where ever I deem fit. I'm just looking to do an ejoyable climb. The point is that this particular route is a fantastic, consistant 5+ until the last few feet. Stop there and "claim" (if that's what you think is important) a 5+ or do the last bit at 6b and give yourself a big gold star.
If you finish a climb where ever you like why are you advocating adding extra lower offs John? Your last comment contradicts your previous ones. It seems from your comments that to you the point where a route finishes is important. And if you cannot complete the route as the first ascentionist did, then you are the one who wants the route lowered (literally) to make it easier for you.
'If you finish a climb where ever you like why are you advocating adding extra lower offs'
These forums are full of people suggesting this route needs an extra bolt here or a lower off there. Considering so many of you feel so strongly on the subject the lack of action is amazing. Bolts don't just place themselves, route equipping is bloody hard work. I suggest you quit bitching or people like me won't bother
The same argument here could also apply to Oblivion is Forever (6b) just round the corner. In fact I can think of a number of routes at Portland where the crux move is the last move.
Bare in mind Oblivion... used to just have the peg at 40ft and then topped out
Example - Blacknor far south - Master of the rolls area - 'Spare the Fern' 4+ to first lower-offs, 5 to the top.
Richard White ... I'm not saying I agree or disagree with your comments, but the way you went about putting them across was bang out of order
Stop being loosers, this is a fantastic route! Lower the belay? Please. The bottom section is easy, but the climb is so smooth that it is simply a pleasure to go up, to feel how every move gets ever so slightly harder until you get to the hard, exposed and beautiful climax at the very top. A full classic!
I like the cheeky top move but agree that it would save wear on the top bolt if there was an alternate, lower belay. I'm prepared to put it in if someone can point me in the right direction.