Route Grade Votings
Total votes cast 48
8m. Start at a notch in the overhang. Pull through the roof with difficulty then climb the face above. High in both grades.
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Felt harder than most of the E1s I've done this year, and bold too, once you're above the roof. Quite pokey.
b*llocks - this used to be graded VS 4c!!! and still is in my opinion. Its comments like these that are responsible for 'grade inflation'. Just remember VS is a harsh grade...think Whillans, hemp rope, rain and hobnail boots....!!
If you think it's VS 4c then you're wrong. 'Grade inflation' is often just another way of saying 'grade correction'.
Well I found it considerably harder than Crescent Arete. And what has Whillans etc got to do with a route that was first climbed in 1978?
I woz merely using the name Whillans to conjure up a vision of the days when VS's were as hard as nails, unlike these nancy boy slabby E1s that some people try to use to devalue these 'real mens routes'! BTW Crescent Arete is HVS 5b and not E1 (more grade inflation).
You mean when VS was the highest grade and included everything from VS to E-something?
No, just remember VS's are generally pretty tough compareed to Severes. Stuff like Paradise Wall just isn't VS and is better classified HS. HVS and E1's are definite steps up and should be respected as such. BTW, Whillans died in 1985 Stuart...check your facts!!
What's Paradise Wall got to do with it? Just because that's overgraded doesn't mean that this is. I've done a lot of VSs, and I've done this, and this is no VS.
Ever heard of widening the debate? I can refer to Paradise Wall if I want to by way of illustration. It is after all merely within one grade of our contested route. I have done a lot of VS's in my time as I am sure you have too. Thinking of tough VS's, have you ever done Samarkand at Anglesarke or Botterills Slab on Scafell - makes Jim Crow look like a walk in the park.
Fine. Crescent Arete is HVS 5b. I still found it considerably easier than this route. I could also list all the E1s I've led this year which I found easier than this route, but what's the point? You're not going to agree with me or Simon, and we're probably not going to agree wiht you, so we'll all just have to go with whatever the consensus is with the voting system. Fact remains that personally, I found it hard for the current rockfax grade.
Fair enough mate.
Harder than 5a I'd say, can't imagine a VS climber being able to do this route.
Saw some bloke take a ground fall on it Sat, he was very lucky to walk away. Under grading has its faults, but this just a thin HVS 5a.
The first move is a bit of a pull and once you sort your balance no more than HS to the top.
good hand jam in first break, foot up, sidepull in crack stand up, all over, very steady at this grade...
I'd reckon 5a is about right but worth a fluttery symbol.
Too easy to use holds/pro on Feathered Friends to make this even a 1* route.