Route Grade Votings
Total votes cast 322
20m. An ancient classic. Climb the projecting rib under the centre of the buttress to a ledge (hard for the short). Continue then move right and climb the centre of the slab by a crucial mantelshelf. Continue up the airy arete.
Login to your ROCKFAX account to add your comments - Search for comments.
A brilliant route for a cold january day
Surely one of the best VS routes on grit, which is high praise and still somewhat bold especially if pushing the grade.
I found this quite hard for a VS! That mantleshelf is quite unnervng! But it's bommer protection & easy afterwards. A fantastic route!
Fantastic route! Solid at the grade, plenty of gear where you need it and a great introduction to proper grit slabs.
Found this easy, apart from the start. The gear is good enough where you need it, and top is a fantastic run-out. If you like that sort of thing.
Brilliant route. Reachy moves to start, followed by good friend 1.5 placement. Tenuous moves on the slabby central section; the crux seems almost undo-able at first due to the poor nature of the holds, but just lean in, commit to the balancy mantel and trust your feet, and it feels brilliant and easier than it looks. The angle of the slab is in your favour. The upper section is a romp. You have to work for your gear (almost exclusively cams - so take a decent selection), but you can get good, if well spaced placements. Felt high in the grade, and definitely not a first VS.
Please use the good nut placement at the crux instead of stuffing friends in, as to avoid pollishing out the slot any more. Then we can keep it as a 3* route for years to come.
The action of 4 thoughtfully placed cams are going to have a hell of a lot less impact than tugging full weight on a nut placement, I'd have thought?
In theory yes, but look at the slot and you'll find the friend placements are a lot more worn than the nut placement.
Please everyone solo the route and avoid damaging it with any gear at all. In fact, solo it bare foot so the nasty rubber doesn't add to the polish.
I led this route a couple of weeks ago and found the gear placements to be in good condition - both for friends and wires.
Brian im sorry but you must be blind, the gear placements in the breaks are well and truly nacked just look at the wear that constant use of cams biting the rock have caused, its such a shame as this route is incredible.
If you have a problem with the gear placements then maybe you should solo the route...
Definitely not the hardest VS in the world, as long as you think about it. The gear placements are getting worn, especially the one at half height. You look at it and can see exactly what size cam it needs, But this is so bomber that you dont need any more gear after that. And the top half is easy anyway. Brilliant route, enjoyed it so much that I had a bit of a dance at the top.
Bold??? what a well protected route if you've got a full set of cams, The moves are easy 4c if you're used to grit slabs, one to add to my solo list.
Maybe it's the hype but I don't think it's all its cracked up to be. A nice route yet, but certainly not a mega-classic. Inaccessible Crack just round the corner is better. As for gear, there's plenty if you have cams, though the crux can also be protected by an inventive Rock 3.
how does this get 3 stars,easy and crap
Not bad but I think Hargreaves is more sustained, trickier and probably better?
Mark, I don't think routes are awarded stars according to how easy or difficult they are, that's what the grade is for. If you're just pushing VS, or are crap at slabs, this isn't easy.
Anybody else noticed that Ivor Berg climbed this and his other big route Cave Direct at Laddow, solo when nobody else was around. Supposedly before they had woken up in the case of Cave Direct? Odd?
great route. reasonably well protected by nuts (I found 1 good one and one average one on the crux ledge and the one before). Also some good cams where it counts.
Well I heard it was not too well protected - but I didnt know I would be soloing the first 12 or 13m, then just have one dodgy cam for the crux. Pretty scary, but a great route, one of the best.
Oh and after reading the above comments, I can confirm to anyone wanting to lead this route that they are bollocks. I saw three other peole lead this today and while the ones doing the right-hand start got something in lower down, no-one had more than one cam for the crux. three nuts is a load of rubbish, expect to be scared if VS is your limit. High in the grade IMO.
I'm afraid not old boy. I put at least 2 nuts, and 2 friends in at the crux. The bottom is bold, but relatively easy.
SidH, I'm afraid you're wrong and everyone else is right. Being a natural coward, I usually place both the bomber nut and a 'just in case' cam for the crux. The rest has adequate protection, though sometimes it's below your feet.
This is a truly great grit VS that held a lot of fear for me as a good friend took a very serious ground fall from the crux.
The bomber nut placement at the crux is to the left of centre IIRC.
Sid, you can get a good number 6 nut in the cam slot on the left just before the crux, you can also get a 1.5 sized cam next to this. The bottom is bold but the crux is well protected
errr your all wrong.
"you're all wrong"? Apart from everyone who said there was good gear. And you don't seem to have noticed the good no 6 nut placement - just because you didn't find it doesn't mean it's not there ;-)
Good route, sketchy solo! I started in the little cave on the left and pulled through the right side of it onto the left side of the slab. Followed the left side of the buttress the whole way - it all makes a good variation
Look I can't remember the nut sizes now I lead it months ago, I know they weren't very large or very small, but one thing I do know is I thought the gear to be good, especially if you are carrying a large enough range of friends (you need quite a small one and a couple of fairly large ones.). I still say this staement you made is wrong:
That wasn't me, it was SidH.
Virtually a sport route. Good climb though.
You should spend more time climbing and less talking, boys. The climb is very well protected throughout and, if you can't see it, you should give up leading!
ok repeated this yesterday and yes, the crux is well-protected. Must have had blinkers on the first timeI did it I guess. Getting stood in the break from where you place the gear is bold, though. Love the route.
I repeated the route on June 5 after 30 years. Unlike my original ascent, I found 2 good friend placements at approx 1/3 and 2/3 ht. I didn't have any friends larger than 2 and a half, otherwise there would have been another good placement. I didn't deviate from the route to look for other possibilities. One of my favourite grit climbs at this grade.
this is a really nice route. it is a little run out in places but that's all part of the fun. the higher you get the easier the climbing becomes.
Makes you laugh reading some of these comments, if you want to do a slab with crap gear then go and do three pebble slab at Froggatt!
Awesome route, gear sparse but its there when you need it. I liked Black slab (hargreaves original route?) more tho. Still well worth the 3stars.
Solo, this feels like a slightly high grade VS, but not by much. Great route though it is, I'm not totally convinced of it's position as one of the best VSs in the Peak. Perhaps it was the screaming cadet crowd top-roping next door that detracted from the enjoyment!
Lovely route. Dunno about the grade, I've only ever soloed it. Felt bloody easy, but I'd been doing slabs all day, and when you know what's going to stick, then it's all easy, isn't it? As for the debate on whether cams polish the pockets, I must say that one should never feel pressured to ill-protect a route, but it's more fun to turn on the retro on this one, and leave the cams in the bag. Though you may as well leave the rope behind too, if you do that :)
The start felt pretty easy, but with spaced gear. There's a bomber nut placement in the slot to protect the crux mantelshelf. A very nice route, more interesting than Hargreaves'.