Route Grade Votings
Total votes cast 54
A route with an arduous (and avoidable) start. Using the chimney start lowers the route to a more amenable HS 4b. 1) 5a, 18m. Climb the fingery polished scoop by a long reach, or avoid it by the chimney on the left. Weave up towards the overhangs, pulling over a bulge with difficulty to enter a groove. Trend right below the huge roofs to the 'pipe' stance. 2) 3c, 10m. The pleasant jamming cracks on the right are awkward to enter and soon lead to the cliff top.
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Updated to VS 5b! That explains a lot... i thought it were stiff for HS 4c. Wdn't call the start 'desperate', but it is technical & unprotected to 5 or 6m. Use the finger crack to your advantage, or risk not getting off the floor on polished holds. Friend 2.5 provides some relief until better gear is reached where the two starts join.
There is another variation start in between 4b and 5b where you climb up a small block at the foot of the chimney, where using a pocket for your left hand and some small footholds, you can get a number 2 nut into the finger crack at a strech, providing excellent protection for a delecate step accross to layback off the finger crack and continue up.
never VS 5b! The start is a little bit tricky so maybe VS 4c-5a, I didn't think HS was that unfair at the time. The climbing does get a lot easier on the unprotected bit once you've done those difficult intial moves
I agree with last comment. Never VS 5b. Maybe 5a for one move, but it's actually v well protected by quite a big Rock at about waist level at the crux. Rest of route is superb 4a/b, v varied and full of character. I submit that it's a better route overall than Black and Tans which now seems very tame and disappointingly easy in its upper reaches, what with modern sticky boots and good pro.
This route does start about 2m. left of the chimney, doesn't it? If so there is no pro. until you've done the starting (crux) moves. Felt 5b to me, or is this another "harder for the short" scenario. Rest of the climb is plain sailing in comparison.
Sorry, should have read "2m. right of the chimney".
I'm getting very confused with this 5b stuff. The start is barely 5a (not trying to sandbag) and yes becomes unprotected, but only whilst the climbing is 4a(max). Protection all the way to the top from there is excellent - this is an excellent route though, I give it ***.
Fantastic route, particularly the exposed traverse to the belay stance. The start is nicely technical but i found it to definitely be easier than 5a, compare it to the start of Pincer on the lower tier also 5a and a similar style but much harder. Shame the top crack is so easy, but it doesn't detract***.
The start is very height dependent, if you can't reach the good handhold with your feet in the big hole then it may well be 5b. Personally I thought it about 4c :)
This is a really good route, the gear is good all the way and the start is about 4c! This 5b nonsense is rubbish, compared to other 5b problem starts like Baron's Wall at Curbar this is really easy!
Managed to protect the start adequately: got a high nut in while standing on the ground, which would have softened the landing at least, then got another one in after the first move while hanging uncomfortably from a finger pocket. Thought these moves were easier than the 4c start of Crack and Corner, though the latter would be easier were it less polished.
Any Hard Severe leader who isn't tall and can do the start of this straight off should probably skip a couple of grades and move on to HVS 5b!