UKC

I'm thinking of taking my daughter to Harrison's Rocks on Sunday. Car out of action so we'd be travelling from Cambridge on train + bus, and I'm anxious to avoid a wasted journey.

I've not climbed on Southern sandstone before and I'm borrowing the guidebook for details of routes and specific local rules about toprope rigging and local ethics, etc, but have a few questions for those in the know:

1) I know not to climb on southern sandstone after rain. Weather forecast for TW looks dry enough (now, Saturday and Sunday). But there is a small 5-6% chance. Is it the case that the slightest spit/drizzle for a few minutes means you should pack up and leave, ... or are we talking about the rock getting a soaking? Don't want to waste the train fare.

2) It it worth taking a length of static rope for rigging to trees, or can everything be done with slings? (I have 14m static, 240cm thin dyneema, and a couple of 120cm wide nylon ones, and a few screwgates).

3) Last bus from Groombridge to Tunbridge Wells station is 16.17 which means to make a good day of it we'll probably take a taxi back from the Rocks or Groombridge to TW. Any idea how much roughly this would be?

In reply to kmsands:

Not so sure on the other two questions, but I'd definitely take the static rope as well as your slings as sometimes you might be anchoring from a tree, and even if you're not some of the bolts can be quite far back from the edge of the rock, and you want your climbing rope to well clear of the edge.

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it!   

In reply to kmsands:

If you are making a significant effort on public transport, go to the Peak instead 

In reply to Moacs: That, and it's likely faster to get to Hathersage.

In reply to kmsands:

Going to Southern Sandstone from Cambridge is barmy. Go to The Peak District. 

In reply to kmsands:

14m of semi static sounds like it'll more than cover any rigging at top, if you have that I'd say no slings needed.

Try to avoid using trees when possible, repeated use can damage the bark/cambium. There are a lot of top anchors (most routes) but due to fragile rock they are often back from the edge. An old thin doormat is a good idea for the edge at top so your rigging rope and top krab hang just over the edge - avoid rope rubbing the rock, but the soft rock at the top is protected by mat from the rigging rope.

Climb over the top rather than lower down (be careful!), don't abseil, clean shoes before starting all routes, and take a second doormat to stand on at start if necessary, brush gently, use resin balls in chalk bag not chalk if possible.

If it's a nice sunny afternoon look out for adders you might glimpse one if lucky walking back towards car park (and so Groombridge) back from the crag 

Don't take any new fancy climbing ropes if you can avoid it. Set your expectations so you are going to enjoy it, it's not a world class venue don't imagine it's another Stanage or something, but a lot of fun can be had if you decide to roll with it and have a laugh

Hope you have a great day out. Enjoy 

Edit: seems quite a commute for that venue???

In reply to kmsands:

Good luck finding a taxi in the middle of rural Sussex.  However, Eridge station on the Oxted-Uckfield line (direct trains from London Bridge most of the time) is not a stupidly long walk.

If you want to go to/from Tunbridge Wells, though, the heritage railway is actually useful and runs a little later than the bus:

https://www.spavalleyrailway.co.uk/product.php?xProd=273

In reply to deacondeacon:

Peak would have been my first choice - time on public transport is actually quite similar - but trains to Sheffield this Sunday morning appear to be non-existent on the National Rail site, & so it seems impossible to get to Stanage or Rivelin early enough to make a day of it. (Plan B might involve going up Saturday evening and camping at North Lees).

But also I wanted to try Harrison's, as the top-roping ethos with fixed anchors may well suit my daughter, who is more or less a beginner, enabling us to get a lot more routes in than a day of lovely - but faffy - trad.

Thanks to others also for advice.

In reply to kmsands:

The weather forecast looks good, so as long as we don't get an unexpected downpour you'll be fine. A little drizzle doesn't mean it's over for the day, the main issue to watch for is that it's dried out properly after a soaking.

Definitely take your static rope and the slings. There is a new rigging system in place for the bolted routes that is a bit of a pain. There are two staples, one about a foot behind the other, and you should equalise off both. You can do this with slings and a couple of krabs, but often static rope is easier.

It will be pretty busy, and there is nothing us locals like doing more than advising newcomers how to do it properly! So if you are in any doubt, try asking someone who looks like they what they are doing. They will almost certainly be glad to help.

If you've never climbed on Southern sandstone before, prepare for a bit of a spanking. It requires a distinctive technique and it's hard. All the easy routes have been worn down to nothing over the years, so they tend to be a struggle. Don't look at the grade and think you should be able to do it!

I've never got a cab from there, but it's about 5 miles so I can't imagine it will break the bank. If you struggle to get picked up from there you could walk to the pub in Groombridge. It's propbably worth trying to thumb a lift. I'd be happy to offer one, but I won't be there on Sunday.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Resin balls?? Did you mean to type that?

In reply to Holdtickler:

I think I did?  ermm "eco balls"  then??   what's the correct name for them as a generic term?  The one I had donkeys ago said resin and was a bit sticky (weird but worked), however the BMC are selling metolius one like this  https://shop.thebmc.co.uk/product/metolius-eco-ball/

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Are you referring to pof? I think the use of any resin based products on SS, or indeed anywhere in the UK would result in a public lynching!

In reply to Moacs:

PS: One other reason to go to Harrison's is that the fare for both of us is £49.50, whereas the lowest train fare to Hathersage seems to be £126, leaving the night before so adding in a campsite fee. So not really that barmy. If the car was OK, we'd be up the A1 like a rat up a drainpipe of course.

In reply to ebdon:

Ermm no, not talking about daubing fingers or holds in tack, I thought there was some resin and drying agent inside the eco balls, maybe I used a very wrong name, but the eco ball type thing were what I was trying to point out

In reply to kmsands:

Try it and see, why not try a new area?

As long as you realise that there is more to Southern Sandstone than Harrison's. And that it's a bit grotty, but for many that's a perverse charm. So as mentioned... set your expectations low and just go for a laugh, that way you might end up enjoying it.

In reply to Hooo:

Ta all for the various tips. Early start and late home but a good time doing easy routes with my daughter. Really fun crag (weird rock to climb on though).

In reply to kmsands:

Glad you enjoyed it! It is rather esoteric climbing, but it’s a lovely setting and a fun day out!

In reply to kmsands:

What would car hire cost for the day, compared to bus and train fares for 2?

Are any of your mates out to play on Sunday? Maybe you could scrounge a lift somewhere?

In reply to Andy Hardy:

Car hire (which would have to be Saturday-Monday morning) would be at least £110 plus petrol & Dart charge - £140 all in? Train fare with Network Railcard was £39.70 for both of us. £6 bus from Tunbridge to Groombridge, £14 taxi back to the station in the evening. £60 in total.

I'm baffled by the certainty with which four people have now suggested that it's bonkers to go to Harrisons from Cambridge, and the Peak would be far easier, quicker, and cheaper. I researched every other option, and it was not.

Yes it was a long journey, and not exactly cheap, but we had a great day out, at a new crag, (with loads of easy routes for my near beginner daughter), and a new kind of rock for me.

(And on your other question, yes I could have got a lift to the Peak in the end, but that particular climbing partner was staying to Monday, which for various reasons didn't work for us).

In reply to kmsands:

A nice thread, and thanks for posting it all. Glad to hear you had a great day out 

In reply to kmsands:

Glad you enjoyed it and it was worth the trip.

You do realise this is UKC? The fact that you suggested anything other than grit was bad enough, but choosing Southern sandstone? I'm surprised by how lightly you got off!

In reply to Hooo:

Don't tell then grit IS sandstone then ...

(Actually the architecture of the rock at Harrison's seemed very grit-like to me. All the bulges, cracks, slopers, and breaks, just none of the friction).

In reply to kmsands:

Hi Keith, I really rate sandstone for a short day out.  We used to do it as a summer evening trip from Cambridge when I was younger and keener.  The other obvious destination to look at is Bowles rocks.

In reply to kmsands:

Yes, I do like going on grit, because it's like my local sandstone but with extra grip. 

What's really funny at Harrison's is seeing people who climb quite hard on grit coming to SS for the first time and being unable to get off the ground.

In reply to Hooo:

This is often the case and why many go off in a huff and diss what is an excellent climbing venue with some of the best climbs in the country.  I would also say that in the right conditions sandstone offers more friction than grit.

In reply to kmsands:

That's because it's only just rock, more like a very hard, steep beach

In reply to kmsands:

Fair enough, I keep getting adverts for "Car Hire from £23/day" which is what prompted me.

I didn't make any comment about destination

Glad it worked out for you both

In reply to Durbs:

Complete nonsense. All the best SE sandstone has a very strong ironstone crust, so that you're really climbing on iron rather than sand.

In reply to CantClimbTom:

I'm surprised that no one's mentioned the sheer technical beauty and intricacy of the best sandstone routes. Things like the finishes of Bonanza and West Wall at Harrisons, Hate at Bowles (sheer climbing gold), everything on the beautiful Fandango wall, the amazing cracks at High Rocks - just outrageously good by any standards. Etc, etc.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

No, don't think anyone has, because it requires people to see have already warmed up to the area to appreciate it's charms.

Personally I think southern sandstone is great, but not everyone will see it that way

In reply to CantClimbTom:

It’s worth noting that southern sandstone is one of the most popular crags in the country, so only a minority that don’t appreciate it realy. 

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

I like SS, I really do… but outrageously good by any standards? Not for me…

Fun day out on rather esoteric albeit short routes. On top rope.

In reply to Iamgregp:

I was talking about the cracks at High Rocks. The best there are certainly as good/interesting/difficult/pure as any on gritstone. Really amazing, and not surprisingly avoided by most people, because they're just too hard, too savagely pure.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Just read the requirements to get into High Rocks, what a pallava, left London years ago but HR is class and would be good anywhere I think. Krait Arete is just brilliant along with many others.

In reply to Iamgregp:

Go and have a look at the astonishing 'Boa Constrictor Crack' at High Rocks, for example. Absolutely outstandingly good. Completely ridiculous at its traditional sandstone grade of 4b. Now generally accepted to be 5c. But gosh, the concentrated quality combined with difficulty.

In reply to robate:

It's so sad what's happened to High Rocks. It's offensive, the way it's "owned", but most climbers are being very sensibly polite and amenable, because no one wants access conditions to become even more difficult.

I find the idea of anyone "owning" a beautiful natural feature like this (or Brimham Rocks or the Cheddar Gorge, etc, etc) absolutely unacceptable. For example, the absurdity of the Matterhorn being jointly "owned" by Switzerland and Italy. Something that amazing - like the Grand Canyon or Everest - should surely belong to the world,

In reply to robate:

Krait Arete. Beyond my ability, but my god, the quality. I was fortunate enough to see Boysen himself on it years ago.

In reply to Gordon Stainforth:

Was that the first ascent? Actually when was the first ascent? The reason I ask is that i group some of those SS routes with some of the great Allen, Bancroft era peak grit routes but not sure of my dates and never did know when the sandstone ones were done.

In reply to kmsands: I used to live near Cambridge, and remember a pretty decent cross country service to Sheffield/Manchester, and have also lived in London, and appreciate how much of a faff getting the train to Tumbridge Wells would be.  Ergo my suggestion.  But I guess you could get Thameslink to the south side of London and change (?), making life a lot simpler?

In reply to wbo2:

If you're lucky enough to have a Sunday with no engineering works then it's a straightforward journey. Cambridge to Tunbridge Wells, one change at London Bridge.

In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:

A bit too popular some times, it's a bit battered after lockdown.

Listen everyone. Southern Sandstone is shite. Don't bother. Go to the Peak instead.

Liverpool Street > tube to London Bridge > Tunbridge Wells. It's comparatively cheap at weekends, more so with a Network Railcard. Sheffield is about the same in time terms but more than twice as expensive (and as said above there seemed to be no way of getting there early enough last Sunday to make a day of it).

Now got my car back, so it'll be off to the Peak for my next trip, but the sandstone was great stuff and I'll definitely go there again. Although we were doing easy stuff, I got the sense (even on the easy Moonlight Arete) that harder routes would be high quality, very precise and technical challenges, I can see why it has its fans.

In reply to Hooo:

Its funny, Everyone who knows sandstone knows those who say its **** probably are reflecting upon there own climbing anyway. Some of the best climbers in the UK developed a passion for climbing through sandstone.

In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:

Yes, people like the Holliwells, Ben Wintringham, Mick Fowler, Johnny Dawes, John Allen, Tom Patey, Chris Bonington, etc etc

In reply to Daimon - Rockfax:

I’ve never climbed on southern sandstone but have developed a deep affection for Cheshire sandstone after a sceptical start. You could almost say the fickle nature is part of the charm, shame it’s a charm so easily abused.