UKC

Morning all ,

Firstly I hold my hands up and admit that in the past I “ may “ have been less than complimentary about caravans and “ may “ have said something along the lines that may see me having to purchase an edible hat . However …., I’m trying to think outside the box and am considering all options to take my kids to morzine for a biking trip . I’ve struggled to find affordable ( for us ) accommodation that I’m happy the bikes will se safely stored . One option I’m considering is to borrow a caravan ( which I think I can do for no cost ) . I have never towed one and certainly think towing  one  to morzine Could  be a bad idea ? Please don’t use this thread to be anti caravan in general . Has anybody got anctual  experience of doing this ? As I said , it just an “ idea “ at the moment 

In reply to mike123:

Have you towed smaller trailers before?

If not, reversing takes a bit of getting used to, and if you've not practiced before you get stuck in a place you can't drive out of with lots of people watching it could get stressful, so borrowing a trailer and doing a bit of practice in an empty supermarket car park before the trip might be a good idea.

​​​​​​Are you kids old enough to help you unhook the van and manhandle it if maneuvering gets tricky? Don't let your ego get in the way of taking that option (with the help of locals if required).

Otherwise I'd say doable as long as you do your research and take your time.

​​​You need to give things a wider berth to allow for the trailer swinging in, but you'll probably be hyper-vigilant about that on your first trip, it becomes more dangerous when you start to give more back over to autopilot.

Main rule is to do everything more slowly and deliberately than you might do when driving the car only. For example, never take a last minute decision to leave at a junction - you could correct too quickly and flip the van.

​​​​Be careful going downhill - that can make the van unstable so take it extra slow.

If the van starts oscillating, you need to change the speed. It's slightly counterintuitive but mostly better to pull the van out by accelerating rather than braking (unless there's a change of road conditions ahead that mean you're going to have to brake again immediately).

IT will be tiring as you'll have to concentrate much more than usual, so give yourself lots of time to take breaks along the way. The good thing is, you've got a caravan; if you're tired, stop and change plans, don't try to soldier on.

In reply to mike123:

Have you checked how much the crossing will be? I'd suggest that a caravan doesn't actually keep your bikes safe at all, and how would the owner feel about you putting the bikes in their pride and joy. 

An alternative you might want to consider is glamping. My family stayed in a fantastic campsite in the ardeche a few years ago. invest in some decent locks and get some cycle specific insurance.

In reply to mutt:

Yeah this. My parents like to caravan and it is NOT cheap from what they have told me. I'd just be investing in solid bike looks/protection and go on holiday in my normal way. Camping: lock them up, cover with a tarp on the campsite. AirBnB-type: just bring them inside. 

In reply to mike123:

Years ago an old manager of mine finally bit the bullet and bought their dream caravan, lots of talk of weekends away and freedom of the open road.

Flipped and totalled it on the first trip down to Cornwall!

In reply to mike123:

Not at all trying to be smartass, but before you started thinking this far outside the box I imagine you'll have considered renting bikes in Morzine, as friends of mine have done in other alpine centres (e.g. for following the Tour de France).  Is that still more expensive than driving with a caravan, or hopelessly unsatisfactory in terms of bike quality?  The caravan idea seems fearfully problematic especially as a first-time learning experience ...

In reply to mike123:

Make sure you load your caravan appropriately.  We used to thunder across Europe in the 60's and 70's in big Fords with a smallish caravan that was rock steady at speed.  I think my dad was a master of load distribution (aeronautical engineer).  There's lots on the internet now.  Try this:

youtube.com/watch?v=zwlgZG55QWk&

In reply to mike123:

All good advice from others, but the first thing I'd say to a friend asking your question before you can answer properly is. "how heavy is your car and how heavy is the caravan?". Laden caravan absolutely needs to be lighter than the car. But it's much easier towing a caravan 75% or less weight than the car. Practising with a trailer can help you suss reversing and manouevouring but isn't really going to give a full sense of the dynamics of motorway towing a caravan (e.g. when passing a HGV in sidewinds). If this issue all sounds a bit too faffy or nerdy for you, then towing a caravan is not for you. There's other weight stuff you need to get right to make towing safe (weight distribution, nose weight, etc.) 

In reply to mike123:

I'm guessing that you already have a tow ball on the car, if so does it have 13 pin electrics which caravans seem to require, if you had it fitted for a bike rack trailer board it may only be 7 pin (I am not an expert on this). Getting a tow ball fitted can be expensive, approx £600.

We succumbed to a caravan 2 years ago albeit a tiny GoPod. We took it to France last summer & are planning a long trip this year. I found towing it in France a bit easier than over here mainly due to less crowded roads.

Interestingly, it appears that in France if the total weight of car & trailer combined is less than 3.5T you aren't subject to restricted towing speed limits. I didn't put this to the test, my mantra is that though it may be easy to go quick when towing, it's stopping that's the problem!

In reply to TonyM:

There are websites like Towsafe, where you can check the compatibility of your car with caravan models.

In reply to mike123:

I would use at least a 2-litre vehicle, pref four-wheel drive.

Stability is crucial as others have said so don't  load the back end of the caravan, and make sure horizontal alignment is good. Avoid snaking, can be corrected, and caravan wheels are vulnerable to blow outs because they are often used intermittently. 

Caravans are a great solution for a trip esp in bad weather.

DC

In reply to mike123:

Are folks like this not any good ?

https://en.morzine-avoriaz.com/services/mathias-sport-sport-2000-mtb-storag...

http://www.morzinestorage.com/morzinestorage/aboutus.asp

Im sure there are more. Even for couple of weeks with 4 bikes or so might be doable and will be cheaper than renting bikes and denting a caravan. No idea if these links are good but given its a bike mecca Id have thought someone has a safe space. Not been for a while...

Maybe not if youve £££££ bikes but these days half the park has a bike over 5k so someone must be used to keeping stuff safe.  

In reply to weeve:

Yep, I'm also confused why the answer to " bike security" is a caravan rather than some Pragmasis locks.

Can't imagine how enormous a caravan would need to be to hold a few LLS bikes along with the owners through the night.

We've got a 6m chain that goes around the van axle and then the 4 bike frames and 2 wheels. It's a bit of a faff each day but...

In reply to mike123: thanks all for replies , all this is helpful and just the kind of thing I need to help me decide . My car is big enough and 4 x 4 .  As I said it was just one idea . Security of the bikes is not the main thing but getting the bikes and all the camping gear to France all in tact  . I am also thinking of a large trailer with mesh sides or even admitting to myself that the car needs to be replaced with a kombi style van sooner than I had hoped . Decisions decisions . 

In reply to mike123:

Have you checked your licence, the rules have changed recently. You may need another test. I really don't know what the new rules are exactly but I do know that they've changed with regards to towing vehicles. 

In reply to mike123:

As if Brexit wasn't enough, you want to clog up the French roads with a ca***an.

😋

In reply to mike123

I would say van & camping is the way forward, for bike security and economy.

Have you thought about the increased fuel cost and increased journey time towing a caravan? You'll have to drive much slower - and you'll be lucky to get 25mpg vs around 40mpg in a van. 

Also having a caravan in tow will make pit stops en-route more limited.

In reply to keyboardworryer: that’s what I’m thinking . I be just had yet another reply from an Appartment that has no where to store the bikes . It’s not so much “ safe “ , because I will lock  them up wherever as the fact that most ski Appartment have know where to put a bike at all . One of the owners messsged me that when guests carried their bikes up the stairs snd put them on the balcony ( that would be fine ) one of the residents of the block shouted at them . 

In reply to mike123:

Many years ago I borrowed a caravan, 5 berth, to tow. I had plenty of car driving experience but no trailer experience. In the event I found it easy and common sense to drive, no issues. My 2p.

In reply to mike123:hire or borrow a Swift Basecamp.  You can fold the seats/bed aside and there are tie downs for Bikes etc in the floor.  Then once arrived on site remove bikes and you can lock them to the caravan towhitch.

Check out any specialist bike insurance you have such as Pedalsure as they have v strange stipulations about how long you can keep the bikes in the same place if away from home.  I eventually insured my bikes with my household policy as the restrictions were much more reasonable both at home and on hols..