UKC

Looking to practice snow/ice alpine climbing techniques in end November and wondering if that’s still typically too early for North Wales?

Do I realistically need to get to Scotland then?

(Living in London so trying to minimise travel!)

Hard to plan ahead for that. These days you could be rock climbing in a T-shirt or (pretty unlikely) using an axe. Or most likely hill walking in the rain. Check the logbooks for popular routes and see when they get done. I certainly wouldn’t plan a trip around it this far ahead. Sorry. 

To be honest, you would be lucky to find anything that requires axes and crampons in Scotland in November. I would say almost no chance in Wales, based on the last few years anyway.

Thanks both that’s really helpful - thought Scotland would be a back up option but sounds unlikely as well!

I've no idea what sort of thing you are training for but, snow or not, big days out on rock is probably as good practice for most stuff in the Alps as anything else which Wales is great for (allthough poss a bit grim in November)

It's impossible to say what Scotland will be like in November. Sometimes there is a cold snap but you need to be opportunistic* to take advantage of it rather than it being something you can plan for in advance.

Also, for practicing snow/ice techniques you need a build up and that's extremely unlikely in November.

*never mind November,  Scottish Winter is mainly for the opportunist these days!

Must be a troll. Otherwise, start checking the papers/news for updates on the frightening effects of man made climate change from burning fossil fuels. You'll then understand why winter climbing is rapidly becoming a thing of the past.

38 years ago I remember doing over 10 winter routes in Eryri during November - up to grade 4, but times and climate have changed!

Did anything get climbed in Wales at any point during the 22/23 winter season?

We got out for a couple of days during that December cold snap, we were just on grade 1 and 2 stuff.... didn't encounter much that you'd have got a solid axe placement in though!

I did a route on the Black Ladders on my birthday on 20th November.  That would have been in 1982

Being unaware of the typical weather at a certain time in a specific area hardly implies ignorance or denial of climate change.

It's just so far from the reality that I'll beg to differ on that one.

Maybe just a new(ish) climber? That's a thing you know.

I've climbed in Wales the last two Decembers but never in November as far as I can remember. Last December was a fantastic two week cold snap that loads got done, the year before it was a grabbed snowy day once you got to about 700 mtrs. Don't really expect consolidated snow and ice though. A sprinkling of snow over frozen turf and hoar on the rocks is likely to be the best you can expect.

Yes, so where did he get the idea that you could winter climb in Nth Wales in November? 

They don't have that idea. They've come on here to ask about it and even qualified the question with a statement that they wondered if it was too early.  Very strange to leap to the conclusion that it's trolling.

He had an idea that you could winter climb in Wales in November. 

This UKC destination article suggested the Welsh winter season can start as early as late November, so it's hardly an outrageous question.

https://www.ukclimbing.com/articles/destinations/welsh_winter_climbing-8160....

Outrageous! Burn them! Burn them!

Realistically yes, you need to be looking at Scotland. In many years of winter climbing I've had one occasion when winter climbing in South Wales happened in November on two consecutive days, and although South Wales is even more fickle than North, I'd say it's just as unlikely, I really wouldn't even bother thinking it'll happen. If the stars align, you have time off work and a partner, do it. And even then, having done lots elsewhere since, I'll venture that it was all a bit rubbish. Otherwise plan for Scotland. 

In terms of Scotland, plan for lean mixed climbing in the Eastern Highlands, most likely Aviemore. That's your most reasonable proposition as you don't need masses of snow, just cold temps followed by a bit of the white stuff. The cold temps are essential though to ensure that the ground is frozen hard as otherwise crampons and axes will damage the fragile ecosystem beneath the snow. A sudden cold snap with a dump is not good enough, it needs to be sub zero for days before hand. 

All in all, I'd say you making hard and fast plans this far in advance is optimistic at best. IMO it's much better to keep some weekends clear and have everything ready to go so that when the call comes in, you go for it. Get into the corrie, assess the situation and see what's in, don't go out with the mindset that you ARE going to climb a particular route, or even that you ARE going to climb...

Thanks everyone for the advice - being new to the sport it's incredibly helpful!

As for some of the other comments, did I think I could take my skis to north Wales and blast turns in knee deep powder? Of course not haha. But was I wondering whether I might get a chance to practice some crampon work and maybe a little bit of ice axe near a summit? Possibly..  

Ah, that needs changing then. But it does sound like he didn't really believe it anyway 

What about an apology for calling troll on a perfectly reasonable post?

Folk did ski on some powder last December in North Wales - so who knows! To be a British winter climber or indeed ski tourer isto live in hope!

Very unlikely in Nov

Might find some north facing Dec

Jan/Feb more likely

Expect more mixed rock than snow and ice

I lived in Nant Peris for 13 years and climbed a good few times in December but never in November. Last year one weekend in November we were climbing in T-shirts, I kid you not!