UKC

Just wondering if anyone has had any recent experience with quotes for all plumbing in a newbuild house?

It's a 2 bathroom house (1 bath, 2 showers, 2 toilets, 2 sinks, 0 bedits) with an additional sink in the utility room and one more in the kitchen. The quote is for all foul water drainage, all fresh water plumbing, underfloor heating for the ground floor (100m2 or so), 3 radiators upstairs, air source heat pump, hot water tank, all other piping material, valves, etc. but no additional work for foul water run after it leaves the house, this is already complete.

The quote I have is £30k total with £12k of that for the heat pump and water tank. Sinks, showers, toilets, etc. are not included but fitting them is included.

Just wondering if anyone is in a similar boat, how this compares?

In reply to henwardian:

You really can't just compare your quote to someone else's quote for a different house, there are far too many variables.

In reply to henwardian:

https://www.checkatrade.com/blog/cost-guides/plumbing-installation-costs/
 

given you are including the heat pump, based on this site looks reasonable?

In reply to henwardian:

I think it's more important to go with someone who gives you confidence in their technical ability and attention to detail rather than focussing on price. Get more quotes and ask for testimonials. Have you drawn up a spec so that you are comparing apples with apples? One person's quote may be cheaper because they are using lower quality components, rads and valves from B and Q for example. 

I feel for you, its so difficult finding professional tradesmen these days! 

In reply to henwardian:

My gut feel is that is a bit high, but not outrageous. Like nikoid said, if you're confident it'll be work well done and can afford it may be a good choice.

Looking at parts prices, If they're using a high end heat pump setup, and controls etc, that could come out to around £10k worth of parts at the absolute top end, and are easy to fit new compared to complex retrofits. The UFH should be about £3-4k all in if it's a screeded system, more if it's a retrofit/clip in/insulation board system (based on 8 heating zones). A couple of very high end rads would be another £1500. Call it around £18k all in for all the pipework and stuff, add some margin for them, and  that leaves about £10k for their labour and expertise.

Get an itemised proposal and see what it looks like. 

In reply to Dr.S at work:

Thanks. I did find that site before, was just putting feelers out on UKC in addition to see what came back. In the past I've found checkatrade to be quite high on their estimations but that might be because I was in an area of the country with more tradespeople and where residents had lower average salaries, now I'm in an area starved of tradespeople....

In reply to nikoid:

This is one thing I have going for me, it's a small community and so far I've generally found that finding out peoples rep isn't so hard and there don't seem to be any real cowboys (knock on wood) because for that kind of malarky you really need a larger community to get lost in - somewhere that word doesn't travel so easily.

I think that aside from the main parts like the heat pump, hot water cylinder, nest system, the other parts like valves and pipes are not going to be specifically specced and it's taken a few months just to squeeze a single quote out of a group of 4 different plumbing companies so I'm dubious at best about whether I'd make any headway on this angle.

In reply to DamonRoberts:

So, what I have is itemised to:

£12.5k - ground floor drainage, bathroom fittings installation, copper pipe/valves/controls and internal drainage, pipe fitting and controls

£12k - 11.5kW Heat pump (sea air resistance model) + 300 litre cylinder

£6k - underfloor heating (clip pipes to insulation, doesn't include the liquid screed poured on top of that), 3 radiators, all copper pipe for heating system, NEST thermostat.

It sounds like the parts I can compare to what you are saying are a little on the high side, as you say, but not outrageous...

Edit: I think the labour almost all comes in that first figure, there are no big ticket items there and pipes and valves, while not cheap don't add up _that_ quickly.

In reply to henwardian:

What is it about plumbers? Have they really got so much work that they can take months to supply quotes - especially with a 30k job? My neighbour has just had an extension built but and his experience sounds similar. And he ended up with a shower valve, taps and sanitary ware all from brands I've never heard of. So managing quality needs some thought and something I wouldn't Iike to take on trust.

I wish you luck!

In reply to nikoid:

In a nutshell, yes!

In reply to henwardian:Couple of comments, especially as I recall you have an 'out of town' location

How much competition if you look elsewhere?

If there's a good local rep. for quality

People like to look to Scandinavia and say 'that place looks nice, everyone is rich' , and that means you do pay high prices for labour/work that in the SE England would be subbed to some pole os whoever for as cheap as, and f### the quality.  Part of the price of a more equal society.

30K sounds reasonable, if the above match.  How much do you expect to pay? Would you do it for your expected price?

In reply to henwardian:

If you have a £30k bill for a job, see what their thoughts are on payment schedule. One plumber might give a schedule for payment with X up front for parts Y when they're done. Another might want it all up front. A different person might *assume* you'll give them cash in a couple of carrier bags when they're nearly finished and the promise they come back later to finish the snagging.

For me if someone is happy to agree a reasonable payment schedule *in writing*, that's an indicator they're going to be sensible about other stuff. Try to negotiate the last 10% on snagging list completion (if you can) and have agreements and lists in writing. Mention this approach at time you ask for quote, if they are dodgy you probably won't see a quote after asking for formal schedule.

Don't want to be seeing some "plumber smashes up customer bathroom who didn't pay" Tiktok filmed in the east wing of Henwardian Towers.

In reply to henwardian:

You're on Skye aren't you?

You can probably add £5k just for that!

In reply to nikoid:

I honestly dread the day I need to replace my heating system and have to use a plumber. I used one when I was 17 and had burst pipes after a long freeze. They put so many push fit connectors under the sink that I could no longer use it to store anything, it was just filled with a maze of pipe. I ripped it out and sent it back to them with their invoice (over £200) and a photo of the work I'd done afterwards with all the pipes against the wall neatly, having bought some pipe and tools and worked it out myself. I kid you not I once worked at a kitchen where a plumber installed a new sink with one of the waste pipes going uphill! It would flood the kitchen whenever the dishwasher was drained. I honestly have no idea how you would go about finding a plumber who knew what they were doing to the extent they could design a system from scratch which would drain fully, circulate well, avoid air locks and noisy pipes and be sensibly accessible.

To the OP, If it was me, I would feel really uncomfortable giving someone that amount of money to lay pipes in my house without a detailed installation plan before hand and the specs of the major components so I could do my own research. I presume that if it is taking 4 months to get a quote then I am probably in fairy land. Perhaps the best you can do is get testimonials from other people and hope for the best. Although they are of limited use as a measure of quality unless the person also happens to be a plumber themselves! You'll get "they were polite and timely and swept up after themselves" not "the pipes were anchored to the wall at the correct intervals and the system was pressure tested in accordance with BS EN 806 after installation". A timley plumber that has you smashing your tiles down in a couple of years time because the pipes have leaked under your bath may well have come highly recommended, and we've all heard that story many times I'm sure. 

Not an enviable position to be in and I hope it all goes well.

In reply to henwardian:

Can’t comment on pricing but it will surely depend partly how many stages (and visits) they need to do. It is not clear, unless I’ve missed it, if the house is up and otherwise complete, or a plot of land that they have to liase with a project manager to fit in.

If it is not a shell that they can easily access underfloor, in stud partitions, etc, then costs will be incurred to do what would normally be first stage fix plumbing and second fix as one job. Having to access covered areas including plasterboard/insulation etc would add to costs c/w having no floors, plasterboard, insulation to work around.

On the other hand if they have to work around other contractors, then that will mean less control over scheduling, maybe more visits, possibly even aborted visits if other contractors are on site and in their way. Also, it will depend on the company and where they are located could be adding to travel time/accommodation costs and particularly when multiple separate visits have to be fitted in on someone else’s instructions/demands. All adds to costs to cover themselves.

Having lived on an island myself, I think it is often a case of the price is what it is and more so if they live on the island and have a reputation to maintain. Often a good local plumber job costs more and if it is not that outrageous then it will be better than an “outside” company that is here today and (possibly) gone tomorrow!

A final thought if it is a groundwork’s complete only. Can you not see if the house builder can sub contract the work and include in the contract with them? Often was in the past cheaper/easier for them to get other business to do the work.

In reply to Sharp:

Yep exactly how I feel. I'm probably too used to dealing with professional contractors through work where detailed specs and BoQ's are the norm. I'm not at all comfortable with a hastily thrown together email masquerading as a "quote". It would appear many people are though, and too willing to take things at face value from tradesmen.

Yes we are in fairyland. If we don't give them work, there's plenty who will! 

In reply to wbo2:

Yup, very much so!

I'm not sure how realistic it is to import someone from somewhere else. That could work for a job that goes constantly for 2 weeks and then is finished but plumbing is multiple different job parts which occur at different stages of the construction. Nearest fair-sized population centre is more than 3 hours drive away... and then there's the issue of how I'd get reliable information on the quality of the plumbers there...

I think there is.

I don't know how much to expect. Can't really answer the last question because I'm not a plumber and I don't have much of an idea of the hours of work involved.

In reply to nikoid:

Ah, yeah, that stuff is all things I will have to buy myself, they are not included in the quote. Only fitting them is included.

Thanks

In reply to CantClimbTom:

Thanks. I'll look into these things.

That's definitely not going to happen

In reply to Sharp:

Thanks for the nightmares!

Edit: The pressure testing at least will be done as it's a necessary part of a new-build house.

In reply to Climbing Pieman:

It's a new-build house, I'm the project manager, the quote is from someone local so shouldn't be any accommodation costs. They will have multiple visits because the under-slab drainage is one visit. The underfloor heating pipes is a visit, the heat pump is a visit, first fix plumbing is a visit and installing sanitary ware is a visit and all those have other jobs like pouring concrete or putting up plasterboard or whatever that needs to be done between them. So I would say it's likely be 6 or so individual sections of stuff to be done.

In reply to nikoid:

If you’ve got working relationships with folks who do clerk-of-working or project management, why not ask one or two of them who they trust to do a decent job. That worked well for me when I worked for a housing association- ( not necessarily cheap (even with a dash of mates’ rates) but good quality, properly thought through work.