UKC

I am using windows 10 as my paid_for_software works really well, at least when I am able to use the darn laptop. Problem these days is that windows updates takes forever, restarted the PC this morning 2 hours later I get a unusable laptop due to being very slow for micro$oft appliacations, like going into task manager or windows explorer. Wife does a restart after I gave up and it's still chrurning now.

So, if I get a brand new laptop with Windows 11, and I going to suffer(*) the same fate ?

* Yes, I suffer so much with this BS (bullsh**), are the updates plugging security holes ? If so can't Micro$oft write better software FFS after all these years ?

Or are the updates written by a spotty 16 yo on a fat salary, with the aim of making square cut icons less square cut icons, or a pale shade of grey a paler shade of grey. That happened after a work laptop windows update FFS. Madness.

PS-my third laptop using windows 7 with zero updates in years works just fine !

Maybe Micro$oft is punishing me for using Windows 10 - didn't Apple get caught out slowing down old IPhones - and we all remember the VW emissions scandal, imagine the covert engineering/programming to do that (VW that is).

Microsoft are going through one of their slapstick periods with Windows 11 at the moment. They're like a terrier that can't resist rolling in badger poo! September patch Tuesday stopped second monitor connectivity working, October's broke Bluetooth and November's re-broke second monitor connectivity. I have a 2yo corporate HP laptop that came with Windows 11. I'd happily chuck it in a skip.

The way Microsoft are pushing CoPilot (generative AI) for developers at the moment, it wouldn't surprise me if some of their Windows Updates don't have any human input...

My personal laptop is an Apple MacBook Air. It never misses a beat. As have my previous two MacBooks. The 12yo one is used by my grandson and the 6yo one is used by my wife. Get yourself a Mac - it'll save you money and stress in the long run!

I had a major Win 10 update a few days ago. It annoys me that before you press the Update and Restart button you are given no indication as to whether it's a 1-minute reboot or (in this case) 30 minutes of not being able to use or even to turn off my laptop. Having said that, the update worked fine and I've not experienced any problems after it (as indeed I haven't with virtually all Windows updates in recent years.)

Cannot get my head around why millions of people pay actual cash money for this inexcusably shit software. We must be at the point now where it's actually easier to get up and running with Mint or Ubuntu?

in their defence, I’m still running real time hardware under Win 7 at work which is as stable as the latest Ubuntu or MacOS distros. It’s not network connected or updated ever though.

FTFY

Like you I'm on my 3rd Mac. I treat it like a Unix workstation (its based on BSD), with a pretty front end, that works well.

When you have hundreds of windows servers to update remotely, the problem is amplified. It seems that every update requires a reboot and there is little transparency as to what individual packages and libraries have been updated. The linux world is much cleaner, requiring fewer reboots and with greater transparency.

Wow, 30 minutes !! You are sooo lucky. Mine was 2 hours, and the wife did a reboot straight after which was more than 2 hours, I estimate 3 hours. Left the laptop on overnight doing a spyware check - zero items found (which is unusual), but I can actually use the laptop this morning. But I do notice the orange your_device_needs_to restart_to_install_updates icon on the taskbar. D'oh!

Microsoft have shit the bed with 10 and now 11. Updates are no longer patches and security fixes, it's now a deliberate policy of adding features with every update. Apparently something staying the same for any length of time is completely unacceptable in todays era of 5-minute attention spans. Of course, since they started out with a perfectly functional operating system, finding worthwhile stuff to add to it is a challenge, a challenge in which they have failed miserably. The end result is an update cycle that continually adds useless intrusive crap that you never wanted and now have to work out how to turn off. Or worse, removes stuff that you do use and have to find a way to get back.

On all the machines I deal with I've disabled TPM in the BIOS. This makes the machine unfit for Windows 11, so at least I don't get nagged to install that.

Regarding the two hour "Do not unplug your computer" update, if it takes more than 10 minutes I just unplug it. It's never caused a problem. I do have a contingency plan just in case though 🙂

My thoughts exactly. I used to use MS Photos, but the whole thing changed (for the worse) after an update despite working perfectly well before. Now I use free viewing software that is not MS ! (Actually been using it for years but used to interchange between Photoshop/The Free Software/MS Pictures depending upon my task at hand).

PS - Laptop really fast all day yesterday, but I have NOT yet 'installed' the updates - how long can I get away with this I wonder ?

Dies your PC has a HDD or SSD. The later will speed up the updates no problem.

All operating files on internal HDD with 79gb free space. I do use an external SSD, but just for personal files like pictures etc.

It's just when it downloads the updates that the PC becomes unusable. At the most inconvenient times.

Its quite likely that this is the only time you're running into the performance limits of the hdd.

I'd definitely advise replacing the hdd with an ssd. I/O-bound operations like Windows updates etc will be substantially faster.

If you have some technical knowledge then all you need is an ssd, a usb-to-sata cable, a screwdriver, and a free download of something like Macroum Reflect. Otherwise a PC repair shop will do it

I'd advise replacing the shitty OS with one that understands the human/machine hierarchy and works when you tell it to. I set my machine doing a ton of updates today while I carried on with what I was using it for.

Doesn't need any tools or outlay or repair shops to try a live version from a usb stick and see how you get on. 

I find all the perennial ukc hating on Windows to be so tedious and (frankly) performative. There is plenty to dislike about Windows and Microsoft, but its a perfectly capable OS and calling it "shitty" just isn't serious.

I'm glad your (presumably Linux?) machine updates while you use it. I have a couple of windows-based computers that do the same, but they use SSDs. Thats why I recommend the OP upgrades to one. A 500gb ssd can be had for less than £40 nowadays - affordable for many (although not all) - and theres no need to struggle on with a hdd. Like it or not, Windows 10/11 pretty much expects an ssd nowadays.

I'm professionally familiar with Linux. Its a great server OS, but the hard truth is that most civilians don't need it on their laptop/desktop - they want a "well behaved appliance", not a generic Linux distro that demands stroking and tweaking.

The OP said that their laptop is fine except for windows update hammering it. Swapping-out the HDD for an SSD is the most expedient fix for this. The last thing they need is to re-pave it with an unfamiliar OS that they then have to learn, and which may not even fully support their hardware or applications.

Anyway, rant over.

Well, this thread exists because the OP was complaining about it. 

That doesn't fix the problem though, you're just spending money to make a problem that doesn't need to exist a problem for less of the time. Which might be fine.

It really isn't like that any more. It just works now. You should maybe give it another go on the desktop.

There's no broken hardware though. An hdd should be perfectly adequate but ok, if the op wants to address the problem by buying new bits that would possibly speed it up.

I have to use Windows at work, and that's fine while someone's paying me to watch a blue screen tell me what to do. But would I pay with my own money to have it on my home pc? Absolutely not. Can't understand the motivation there, other than some unfounded urban legend about Linux being complicated to get on with, which it hasn't been since the 90s.

So many people moan about the stupid stuff windows does, but then when you ask them why the hell they still use it and what else they've tried they'll suddenly pivot and go to extreme lengths to defend it.

HDDs are legacy hardware at this point, they are orders of magnitude slower than even the cheapest SSDs, and as such will take forever doing updates and the like.

If you get a new laptop with an SSD and modern processor, updates will be done swiftly, whether it's windows 11, Mac OS or Linux.

You could eke some more life out of your current PC by just upgrading the HDD to an SSD. A lightweight Linux install may benefit you but it depends massively what software you need to run and your ability/patience to resolve issues with it.

Whatever you do, don't run an internet connected PC without applying security updates though. It's fine if it's not on a network, but connected to the Internet it just a matter of time before it gets compromised. 

It really is, especially on legacy laptop hardware.

As a developer I run Linux in Virtual Box when I need it on my desktop, or using WSL. I wouldn't put it on a laptop that wasn't specifically designed for it, or that was going to be used by an un-supported non-techie.

Linux. Yawn. If the updates don’t work you need a new pc. Mine is 8 years old, win10, new fans, still works fine, all the tablet stuff disabled. Has hardware monster everything tho. 

Mmm, this may well be my course of action, new PC with Win 11 and a large internal SSD.

Whilst still keeping old Win 10 PC for one or two specific applications only.

Regarding the Win 10 PC, that might be semi-retired.....

Does that include not using the internet browser (any browser), but allowing bespoke software (when being used) to download a dataset from the vendor ?

My only gripe is the MS browser (Edge) keeps downloading in the background after I've deleted it. As I use Firefox I don't want all these MS add-ons on my machine. Otherwise Windows 11 is a good stable system especially if you have SSD.

Personally I wouldn't lose any sleep over this. If you want to do it properly you could set the firewall to only allow access to the address for this download. I would also put it in DMZ so that if it did get compromised it can't affect anything else.

This is assuming the machine is behind NAT, like any home or office machine will be. Connecting an unpatched machine on a public IP would be insane.

That said, you do need to know a bit about what you're doing to be sure you're not opening yourself up here. If what I've written above sounds like gibberish to you, you probably don't know enough to be doing this.

An SSD to replace the HDD will sort out your woes in that case.  I did this with my PC (10 years old) earlier this year. If you get a Crucial SSD you can download a free copy of Acronis to copy everything across.

I left the HDD in place and that’s now just used for documents, photos etc.

Thank you all for your inputs, looks like I have a plan of action now, just need to get arse in gear so to speak.

Naive question - I've got an old laptop, am I likely to be able to upgrade the built-in HDD with an SSD?

If you are technologically illiterate, as many are, it's still annoying to get on with. Equally, the friendliest UNIX distribution is only available if you (people) want to splash money on a Mac.

Probably worth being more precise about "old". Or even giving the laptop model. The only possible answer at the moment is "maybe".

Fair point. Dell Inspiron, manuf 2017.

I have an SSD and tend to think an update taking longer than 3 minutes as a long one.

I have one computer with SSD and tend to think an update taking longer than 3 minutes as a long one. Another computer with HDD and 30 minutes plus is not unknown.

I'm typing this on a Dell Latitude E4300 with an SSD (circa 2009) which I call "old".  Running Win 10 quite happily and fine for general every day use.  Mind you I do regular housekeeping, particularly after updates

Yes.

I can't think of any laptop capable of running Windows 7 or later that wouldn't have a standard SATA 2.5" HDD. You can buy a SSD that's a drop in replacement.

2009 with a SSD and Windows 10. I'm impressed. Is the SSD original to to PC, or purchased and added after ? Internal or external ?

My 2015 Dell only has Windows 7 and 2x HDD. (Not this one that I am using now of course).

And what 'housekeeping' ? And why particularly after updates ?

It had iirc a 160GB HD originally (bought from someone selling off business computers that were a couple of years old).  SSD was fitted 2 or 3 years ago and I think it was reconditioned.

I didn't use any special tools at all.  I used the Win 7 backup facility still available from in 10

to create a recovery DVD and then created a system image on to a backup USB drive.

Then fitted the SSD and ran the recovery menu from the recovery DVD and restored the system image.  Worked a dream.  I've always used this method to migrate a Windows PC to a new drive, being a bear of little brain I choose the simplest way.

Clonezilla for Linux.

housekeeping I do is to regularly run Disk Cleanup, including the Cleanup System Files option.  Sometimes the Windows updates leave gigabytes of fungus lying about.  Followed by the Defragment/optimise program.  When it had a hard drive I'd up the priority of defragmenting a couple of notches in Task manager but the SSD optimisation is much quicker.

these are basic tools but can achieve a great deal.  they don't get everything but they leave this old girl running reasonably

btw at some point we upgraded the RAM to 4Gbytes

4gb!

I don't think my work laptop will get out of bed for anything less than 16gb

Thanks for the info.

Mmm, I might have to start doing a few of these tips.

Go for gold. Unless your pc use is 10m email a day or you have oodles of time to waste faffing with unnecessary technical trivia, spend the money. You are worth it.

16gb RAM, 512Mb SSD, desktop (unless you *really really* need a laptop and then also consider 2 machines), whatever video capability suits your needs (more is better), Windows plus your favourite apps.

Time and lack of stress is the essence; ignore the budget/Linux cheapskates.

You might have slightly missed the point there...

yes,

give it a good weed and barnacle cleaning

Yes, laptop HDDs are generally form factor 2.5” and you can get exactly same form factor in SSD, maybe slightly slimmer.  As long as you can open case to get to the HDD you’ll be able to upgrade.  Changing them over physically is just some screws and unplug and plug the SATA power and data cables.  it may be a single combined SATA or two separate ones. 
 

Plenty of articles out there on how to do it.  Key thing is make sure you backup the whole HDD before you do anything.

I never could get the hang of Fridays...