UKC

Just been looking at the 1967 Glencoe guide and noticed Bluebell Grooves climbed by J Cunningham in 1958 in not there. Anyone know why?

In reply to JimR:

I don’t know the answer but worth noting it was done with aid in 1958 and not freed until 1978. As a comparison, is Carnivore recorded in your 1967 guide? That was done the same month in 1958 with aid and then freed in 1978 too.

I’d guess since lots of routes were done with a bit of aid in the 50s it may have been editors discretion as to which were significant and credible. Bluebell Grooves was certainly ahead of its time in difficulty and seriousness.

In reply to Si Witcher:

Carnivore is in the guide. My understanding is that Bluebell Grooves was done by Cunningham with a single point of aid. I wonder if it was the smc thinking it was ‘unjustifiable’ and therefore not including. Bogtrotter is noted in the guide as an artificial route so the use of a peg wouldn’t  seem to justify exclusion on the basis of a single point of aid

In reply to JimR: I did it in the 90s and found it hard, loose and serious. There was no definite crux; it was more like E5 5c than E4 6a. Amazing effort for 1958.

In reply to JimR:

In Creagh Dhu Climber (it says 1pt of aid was used) however my question really was why it was excluded from the 1967 guide. Quite a few other routes are described with aid points

In reply to JimR:

It doesn't appear in the new routes section of the '58,'59 or '60 SMC journals so it's possible it just wasn't written up until later. If you want to search later ones to see if/when it is recorded you can do so here:  https://www.smc.org.uk/journal/downloads

In reply to Cog:

Read the earlier post at 15.36.

In reply to JimR:

I wonder if it wasn’t written up earlier because JC was busy in Antarctica in the early 60s and perhaps only wrote it up after his return?

In reply to JimR:

There is no "1967 guide" despite the misleading information on page iv of it that you are no doubt relying on - it is actually a straight reprint of the 1959 guidebook.

However, that doesn't answer the question of why Carnivore is included but Bluebell Groove isn't - although it might provide some more context.

The route also does not make an appearance in the addendum "New Routes in Glencoe and Ardgour" compiled by J.R. Marshall for the 1965 reprint of Volume II of the Glencoe and Ardgour guide.

It probably isn't related but the nearby route Pendulum disappears from the 1980 guidebook to reappear in the 1992.

Not sure if that has got you any closer to answering your question but your post has led to me spending an interesting few minutes interrogating my vintage guidebook collection

In reply to JimR:

There were quite a few routes that were left out of that red glencoe guidebook...was that mid-60s?... sometime around then.
That wall left of fingals cave, freak out, Bluebell Grooves...I think there were others but going on memory here. The general theme was routes that were deemed to have used to much aid. I remember asking Jimmy Marshal about it, but unfortunately thats all I remember.

 

In reply to redjerry:

That was very odd. A picture of Freak Out on the guidebook cover but the route wasn't in the guide.

In reply to redjerry:

Weird that Bogtrotter was included as it was entirely artificial!

In reply to JimR: I checked with Cubby and this is the chronology:

First ascent JC and Frith Finlayson, at least 6 points of aid. 1958

Second: Big Ian, 2 or 3 points of aid ?year

Third: Ed Grindley and Alan Austin, 2 points of aid ?year

Fourth: Murray and Cubby with one point of aid, 1975

Fifth and first free ascent : Willie Todd and Cubby (both pitches ran together) 1977 or 1978. This ascent is recorded in the 79 SMCJ and the suggested grade is E2!

In reply to JimR: I checked with Cubby and this is the chronology:

First ascent JC and Frith Finlayson, at least 6 points of aid. 1958

Second: Big Ian, 2 or 3 points of aid ?year

Third: Ed Grindley and Alan Austin, 2 points of aid ?year

Fourth: Murray and Cubby with one point of aid, 1975

Fifth and first free ascent : Willie Todd and Cubby (both pitches ran together) 1977 or 1978. This ascent is recorded in the 79 SMCJ and the suggested grade is E2!

In reply to dr evil:

1978 in the SMC database, as I posted above.