UKC

This topic came up on a recent club trip when a club member suffered a nasty fall and ended up in hospital. In this case, his emergency contact, his partner, is a club member and easy to trace.  In the more general case, how do other club handle emergency contact numbers when on trips ?  There is obviously a potential conflict:

Holding and distributing personal contact information vs having the info available to whichever club member is at the scene of the incident.

In our club we have 4 stewards who have access to info if needed.

The BMC recently did a good webinar on this. Not sure if the recording is online yet, but it's a topic that I suspect most clubs need to tighten up on (mine included).

Not being a club member, and after a cycling crash that concussed me and broke my collar bone so ending up in hospital, I wear an IceID silicon bangle with an alu plate that has my name, NOK with 2 phone numbers,  blood group and my NHS number (dob). Cost about £17 and is unobtrusive to wear . Since I'm mostly in the hills on my own it seemed a good idea to wear it then too.

My club asks all members to carry a copy of the emergency contact sheet they fill out for the club. Mine lives in a small pocket of my rucksack so is always with me. 

Simple, and doesn't rely on technology.

I think you would need to adhere to GDPR principles

One thing you can do without privacy concerns for the club is encourage everyone to setup an  Emergency Contact on their phone - ICE.

More: https://www.stroke.org.uk/blog/smart-phone-feature-case-emergency-ice 
https://uk.pcmag.com/health-fitness/70260/how-to-add-emergency-info-to-your...

Really, it is something we should all do at the start of a climbing day, contact details for who our climbing partner would want contacting in the event of an incident.
When I used to meet people off UKC my wife thought it rather strange how little I knew about the people at the end of the day, like if they were even married, never mind who to phone. 

Something to think on maybe.

My son laughs at me because I have stuck ICE details onto the rear of my phone in case someone like me (who wouldn't think of searching for this in the phone itself) either finds my phone or me in a mess. It also solves the problem of finding my phone has no battery left.

Our club stores the members details on Google drive and committee members can access this.  For newbies that aren't yet members, they are asked to provide emergency contact details before attending a weekend or climbing meet. If they don't join these details get deleted.

Personally my phone has my name, phone number and email address on the back of it (mostly in case I lose it!).  It has emergency details that are accessible when locked with my name, allergies, medical conditions, blood group, medication plus emergency contact details etc

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions to mull over.

My club had to deal with this following a sadly fatal accident to a club member.

We had already invited members to provide emergency contact details which are recorded in the BMC's Membership Services Online, but access to this was limited to a few members of the committee. When the accident occurred, those involved found it difficult to contact any of those members with access to MSO. Eventually contact with her family was made via other friends, rather than through the club, but this added unnecessary delay to what was already a very distressing situation. 

This accident caused the club to review a number of its procedures. We decided it was important that those immediately involved (ie the casualty's climbing partners) should be able to easily and (more importantly) quickly find their emergency contact details without first having to track down someone else who could provide them.  We now make the emergency contacts freely available to all members on the members-only area of the club website. I discussed this with the ICO, and they were happy with this provided it is password-protected. They considered it comes under the "legitimate interests" justification for GDPR. Members can of course ask for these details not to be published, but that removes the point of providing them in the first place.

The ICO emphasised to me that GDPR is not there to stop you sharing personal data, only that it should not be used in a way which the person would not expect and has not consented to. By providing emergency contact details it is clear that members expect that information to be used in an emergency.

However you decide to approach this question, my advice is to discuss it with the ICO. In my experience they are usually very helpful, and rather frustrated by those who see GDPR as a barrier to doing anything.

This is a great idea!

I'm stealing it.

My phone's password locked anyway so not really any point there being ICE contacts in my phone memory. 

Many thanks for the detailed response.  Plenty to think on !

My phone (pixel 6a), has an "emergency" option on the lock screen with a list of contacts that can be dialled directly.  Yours might, too.

I think most (all?) smartphones have the option to select emergency contacts that can be accessed even when the phone is locked. 

Husband has one of these on his work helmet, plenty of space to share medical and contact details, no reliance on battery and always on his person rather than having to go back to a bag and search through personal possessions. Not expensive and you could probably buy in bulk then sell on at cost to members.

https://www.arco.co.uk/Web-Taxonomy/Personal-Protective-Equipment/Safety-He...

I run walks for both our national park, have run a small outdoor centre and have also worked for a large worldwide walking group provider.   

1.  If people carry an emergency contact details about their body - will you know where it is?  Or are you going to search for it yourself?  Might be a bit tricky if they are immobilised or moving them to search  trouser pockets (in a female?) etc.,   

If there is an emergency I'd suggest that you are going to have quite a lot on your plate.  Dealing with the remainder of the group, organising rescue etc., etc.,   Dealing with panicking/worrying NOK,, or 'concerned', friends  as the news travels or/and family, isn't something you need if there's an accident/incident.

The agreed procedure we use/d is that NOK details are kept by the organising body ie the NP/Provider etc.,    Then if there is an incident you report it to someone in the organisation and they can field all the telephone calls.  

If I found you unconscious or unintelligible I wouldn't know to check the rucksack pocket, but looking for a medical alert bracelet I'd probably stumble across a bracelet like basemetal's. That bracelet is sounding like a good idea!

If I found you unconscious or unintelligible I wouldn't know to check the rucksack pocket, but looking for a medical alert bracelet I'd probably stumble across a bracelet like basemetal's. That bracelet is sounding like a good idea!

One of the things you are taught to do in first aid for an unconscious casualty is to check pockets and rucksack. Mainly this is to see if you find any indication of medical conditions, but you would also find NOK details while doing this. 

No problem checking pockets on other gender, make it clear to the casualty (they may be able to hear) and any bystanders what you are doing and it's fine. It is entirely appropriate to check for such things. 

However, I agree, the bracelets will be the easiest to find and a great idea.

I can't say I've been told that on any of the many 1st aid courses I've been on. My memory might be wrong but I've alway be told to leave that for the paramedics. Perhaps I've a bad memory. 

It might not be convenient or practical to empty someone's pockets - or even find  all of their pockets let alone notice the slip of paper in their wallet or tucked in behind credit cards etc.,  !!  In bad weather they may well be in survival bag/shelter, where  there's restrictions.   And if there's no signal where you are - are you expecting to wander around searching for a signal or deal with the group & the casualty

I guess  another reason not to bother with 'emergency', contacts about the person is what do you expect the NOK/emergency contact to actually do?  All they may do is worry and just cause more issues and problems to deal with by continual phoning and/or asking for updates and so on. I guess it would be a real pain if you had  or were able to move the casualty to the road or better shelter you'd find it difficult to answer a phone whilst doing this, or indeed find yourself having to later phone the NOK etc., and inform them you've now moved them to XXX - but then find you no phone signal etc., etc.,    

Question 2 on this reckons you generally should check

https://www.realfirstaid.co.uk/stopteachingthis

I've done first aid with the ambulance service and yes they always suggest looking in pockets for things like epipens or inhalers that might give a clue to the person's illness. Not NOK though, that's not a first aiders responsibility as will have no impact on patient care. 

One option would be for the group leader to just ask at the start of the trip for everyone to fill in a form with ICE contact details and any 'essential/relevant' medical info, then to destroy it after the trip. Anyone unwilling to share could be asked to provide details on a separate sheet of paper kept in an agreed place with their kit, or in a sealed envelope which is returned to them after the trip. 

Medical alert jewellery is great for those with high risk conditions, but I don't think many of us would be happy wearing them with NOK details just incase we have an accident whilst climbing.

Contacting NOK certainly shouldn't be the first priority. The immediate priority is to deal with the emergency and if necessary deliver first aid. However at some point, depending on the seriousness of the situation, it may be appropriate to get in touch with the emergency contact, who may be several hours away.

That is fine if you have a formal body such as the NP or a service provider (who presumably also have out-of-hours procedures). It works less well with an less formal body like a climbing club, where the people with access to the information may not be contactable for any number of reasons, including being away climbing themselves. That is what happened following the accident to our member, and is why in the aftermath of that accident we decided to make the information readily available to any member of the club who might need it, and in a way which is GDPR-compliant.

I've done at least 6 first aid courses since 2008 (both HSE First Aid at Work and Outdoor First Aid) and every one has mentioned checking an unconscious casualty for medi-alert bracelets, necklaces or anything in pockets, eg epipen, inhalers etc.

On Ramblers walks all participants are asked to carry an ICE card ideally in the lid pocket of their rucksack or someplace else obvious. 

When I've lead walks for them I've always told any people on the walk where my card is located and also where my phone is. 

This thread has me thinking perhaps I should do the same when out walking with mates where theres no leader or requirement to carry a card etc. On those walks 99% of the time my other half is there too and we both know each others details, any medical stuff etc. Laminating some ICE cards and chucking one in each rucksack I commonly use doesn't actually seem like a bad plan, that way you don't need to remember to swap it from one sack to another. 

Interesting, it’s been taught on every first aid/resus course I’ve done. Main reason being that if you don’t know the cause of the problem you might find out something important. If someone needs you to administer their epipen but you don’t know it’s there because you didn’t feel comfortable touching them then there’s a non-trivial chance they’ll be dead by the time the paramedic arrives. Even where you know the cause of injury, if you have the chance to save the paramedics time and can have information about medication allergies etc ready then that can only be a good thing. You might also learn something that means the 999 call handler increases the priority of the call or can advise you better.

In terms of concerns about inappropriate touching, I’ve always been taught to grab the fabric of the pocket lining near the top and shake/tug the pocket inside out to dump the contents out. Rationale has been (I think, can’t remember for sure) that you don’t know if there is anything sharp or dangerous in there (seems pretty low likelihood but there we go), but I guess there is the incidental benefit that it’s less intimate.

Obviously you wouldn’t be phoning someone’s partner or family or checking their bags while actively transporting a casualty, contacting emergency services, providing first aid, or managing the safety of the rest of your group. You prioritise. But it would be pretty cold not to bother, once safe and appropriate to do so, trying to let someone’s partner or parent know that they’ve had an accident and are being blue lighted to X hospital. If you’ve got an organisational HQ who can crack on with that then great, but where that’s not the case I would definitely still want to make sure that’s done once there is an opportunity. 

Dropbox. 

|Girlmonkey

Fiona |Reid
Jenny C

I was referring to look through clothing and/or kit looking for NOK - or emergency contact numbers.  Its just a distraction you won't need.

Looking for an epi pen or bracelet in may well be important. 
(photo below) :- fellow canoeist on the the Thelon River after a stumble and burst a blood vessel on his lower leg. on the rocks  - he was on Wharfarin/blood thinners. No phone signal and no chance of rescue as it was 200 + miles from the nearest landing strip and nowhere to land.

 

But my point was that you should look through pockets anyway, so if there is info in there then you will likely find it. What you then do with that will depend on many factors, but pocket and rucksack checking should be part of your procedure anyway 

As girlymonkey says, contact info will usually be in the same place as any medical information such as allergies or conditions. So I don’t really understand the “don’t bother looking” comment. You’re ultimately either looking for both or neither. Finding a number doesn’t compel you to immediately call it.

I’m not sure a posed portrait is the best illustration of this point. Rather, it illustrates that most first aid situations are not constant Hollywood-style action. You’re catastrophising a bit in saying there is never 2 minutes to look through pockets and bags. And sometimes being given a productive task like checking a backpack to distract them might be exactly what a panicking group member needs (although that’s a minor tangential point).

If someone hasn’t the common sense to work out that this wouldn’t be the right time to be trying to contact family, I’m not sure I would want to be relying on them for first aid or rescue. 

All I can really add is that when I was airlifted to hospital with a broken spine, both me and my family (who lived 5 hours away) really appreciated my friend finding their phone number and, after I was safely in the helicopter and any more urgent tasks were dealt with, calling them to let them know what had happened rather than hoping hospital admin staff would do it later. 

The OP was asking about good practice for a climbing club. When climbing with other club members there should be no need to go through pockets looking for contact details, because the club holds them. The question then is how easily can any other club members involved in the incident obtain the casualty's contact details?  We are only talking about serious incidents where the casualty is unable to contact family members themselves, but in those circumstances they should be informed as soon as practically possible as it may take them several hours to travel to the area. 

My own experience was that where access to the information is restricted to a handful of club officers it may not be possible to get hold of any them when the need arises. Provided a few precautions are taken GDPR concerns should not prevent you from making this information readily available to all club members. In our club's case, they only need to be able to sign into the club's website - if they have enough phone signal to think about contacting relatives then they should be able to do this.