UKC

In Kalymnos I'm a climbing god, leading 6c without breaking sweat. On Northumberland crags I'm terrified on a Severe.

What are the indoor wall equivalents? Where should I go to massage my ego, and which walls should I drag my mates to in order to sandbag them?

Currently Depot Purples (V5 to V7) are easier than Works Yellows (5+ to 6A+) imo. Neither are probably the grades they say they are, just in opposite directions. 

(This is in Sheffield I should say)

The Moon Board is a sandbag.

The Kilter board is over steamed veggies.

Are you confusing dark purple (V5 to V7) with light purple (V2 to V5)? Or are you just sandbagging?

No, I meant the Dark Purple circuit! And I'm saying the Works Yellows are sandbagged and the Depot Purples are soft, yes! ;D 

I thought the new yellows at the works were alright but a bit stiff (they're probably roughly the same as the Iron Bru now). The blacks on the other hand, suddenly got a lot harder! Used to be my warmup circuit but now there are some I can't do. 

yep, the black circuit is outstanding at the moment!

Dang Moonboard....I rarely venture above 6a+ on that!

The blacks have the added value of not being obvious how to solve the problem…. Double value - solve the problem, then you still have to do it… I tend to find the solution to Depot problems obvious …. so long as you have the strength to do them…

Last time I went to the church in Bristol I flashed a 7a and had a good chuckle about it (normally dog my way up 6b at the quay in Exeter). Im Looking forward to some ego smoothing at the church this weekend!

Increasingly, I feel bouldering walls don't even try to ensure accuracy in grades...

In fact, a wall I went to the other day didn't even post any grades, just shapes. But, the wall I go to most frequently at the moment regularly has V6s in its V2-V4 circuit and V3s listed as V5s.

At most walls, most of the inaccuracy is at the V0 to V2 end of the scale, though, with UK tech 5c equivalents that are actually tech 3as.

Same story at Depot Manchester. Though anything on the woody boards there is a sandbag! 

I think a lot of the larger commercial walls purposely overgrade. Massaging peoples egos is often a guarantee of repeat business. The Depot Purples rarely have a boulder in them that is an actual V5/6 let alone V7. I think indoor and outdoor grades have just become different.

I spoke to a small local wall owner the other week who tries to grade accurately but says he often has people visit (Depot or equivalent regulars) who say everything is nails and leave with their tail between their legs. The dilemma of grading accurately and lose custom or just overgrade everything in the hope of getting customer through the door.

Blue Spider (formerly Craggy Island) has always been a bit stiff for grading. 

WHAT? This is a heart-breaking "You know that Santa isn't real?" moment for me. Are you saying that grades are not actually accurate? After hundreds of years outside and in, and as someone who can reliably and precisely tell a 4c from a 5a, or a Hard V Diff from a Mild Severe, I'm shocked at your implications. What is happening to our country and to climbing? Luckily it must be a regional disparity issue. Its all OK where I live.

Warning -blatant puffery  coming for my local walls - Climb Newcastle at the Valley and Newcastle Climbing Centre - their grading in the sub-6b range is totally spot on to within a nano crimp or quick smear. I can't believe that doesn't also apply to the harder routes, but I'd have to phone a friend to be sure. As for Northumberland trad grades, of course they too are absolutely spot on. 

Have a good Christmas while you ponder.

Dave

Everyone will admit indoor and outdoor grades are barely related to each other...

I don't think it's just ego massage, but also:

- Actual V0 is too hard for most beginners

- Gyms want to encourage progression

- They want to set creative movement, not just crimpfests, but sometimes these knacky problems are hard to grade, especially if they end up cheatable by pulling on a foot, etc.

- They want to avoid injuries

- Feet tend to be too large, though I feel this is starting to get better, with some pebbles, dualtex and vague smears appearing across walls.

- Outdoor bouldering grades are also all over the place...

Increasingly, I think they will just give a vague range and no wrangle with actual grades... In fact, that's already what many walls do.

Another thing that bugs me is that everything gets so dirty and no one seems to know what a brush is. But, that's another story.

Nah, The Valley is soft, sorry.

Can't disagree with a single one of these points! Lots of the harder problems in modern gyms are upgradeable dynos/kanckfests which become infinitely easier once you learn the nuances of the individual setters or someone shows you the trick. Very unsatisfactory IMO, because you can't really work on them - they feel impossible or easy, no middle ground.

I was at Harrogate Climbing Centre a month ago. The grades on the lead walls were so consistently out they were farsical. 7b+ was in reality around 6c, 7a was more like 6a, etc. Let's contrast that with DRSV in Nottingham where a particular setter's 6b+ would be more like 7a.

What's that old saying? There are only two grades, those you can do and those you can't!

Sounds like my kind of place! Ego inflating grades, then a trip to the spa! 

So what grade is Three Pebble Slab then?

That saying was only ever for idiots. There are grades that feel very easy, easy, OK, quite tricky, tricky, very tricky, require some working, require a lot of working, etc. Plus as you improve (or for someone a lot less or a lot more able) the whole thing shifts.

Of course, but there is a big difference between a problem you can work on and learn piece by piece, than a binary do or do not!

You are entirely correct, there are three grades c.f. John Gill

B1 entailed “the highest level of difficulty in traditional roped climbing,” and B2 was anything harder than B1.

B3 referred to a route that had been tried on multiple occasions by more than one party but had only been climbed once. B3 problems, therefore, were reclassified upon their second ascent as either B2 or B1.

Gill wasn’t cutting the punters much slack 😂

I particularly like the chimera-like nature of Gill's grades. Schrodinger's B2/B3 grading conundrum, if you somehow manage to spend 8 years of your life refining beta, getting stronger, dieting, getting more flexible and finally get up someone else's B3, it is no longer B3. If a problem falls in the woods to an unobserved boulderer, does it make a sound on the grade table?

that just about sums it up. It’s bouldering’s Catch 22

Northumberland VS of course

That's a pithy system I always liked...sensible, floating and aspirational. Unsurprising from someone who climbed the world's first V8 in 1958 and the first V9 in 1959 and the world's hardest solo ground up on The Thimble (5.12a) in 1961. Now if John's tired maxim was you have climbed it or you tried and haven't climbed it yet... I could go with that.

According to my Froggatt guide (the first I ever bought) its a HVS solo so V0/low V1 in new money 😂

Put it above sand and that might be consistent... given polish I've even done technically harder slabby oranges in Font that are quite highball. Outdoor V0 highball is no pushover.

Four Pebble Slab (E3 5c)

Four Pebble Slab HVS 5b! 😂

its good value at that grade isnt it?